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MUDII Forum Index General Chat Bash Report 03/10/2013-
Author Bash Report 03/10/2013-
royston
ranger

Joined: Jul 14, 2007
Posts: 1217
From: Felixstowe, Suffolk.
Posted: 04-10-2013 11:05   
BASH REPORT FOR THURSDAY 3RD OCTOBER 2013

This Bash was beset with difficulties. It ran the full time with 81 mobiles left at the end. There is a danger that this report will develop into a rant, so from the outset I should state that the opinions expressed are my own and any criticism would be welcome.

It started conventionally enough with me, having kitted myself out, plodding my way through the Watersnakes. After the first one we got the call to go to the Classical Ruin. It was definitely stated that the ptr was under the hut.

The water-snake1 has just passed on.
*A male voice in the distance shouts "pointer under hut".
*A male voice in the distance shouts "pillar,".


There can be no doubt about it. However?.

*d
Underground room.
Kiwi the surrealist warlock is here carrying a blade.
*A male voice in the distance shouts "killig something".
*A male voice in the distance shouts "n".
*wh ptr
1 in the place known as "classical ruin".

The baton had disappeared. I arrived at the Classical Ruin by an alternative route. All that done, I went back to the Watersnakes. After that it was the turn of the Goblins. Mosquito helped me open the PC and went on to kill all the rats while I waded into the Goblins.

Mosquito was minded to go after the dragon but someone had made the chart disappear, probably by swamping it. The chart missing was critical, or could have been. It took time to respawn.

Initially I blamed those who I always blame when strange things happen. I blamed the Wizzes, convinced they were trying to stretch us. Sensibly I kept this view to myself. I now believe it was deliberate sabotage by a mortal player, intent on wrecking the Bash. You know the sort of person whose only enjoyment is spoiling other people?s fun. The sort of person who tips up a monopoly board when others are playing and laughs.

The bash progressed very slowly. I plodded my way through a number of mobiles, as did other players but they were not going down fast enough and to make matters worse?..

In the distance, you hear a bell toll.
*obit
The following players have died in fights this reset:
Mosquito the dragon-slaying necromancer, killed by someone.
*A male voice in the distance shouts "STAMPPYYYYYYYYYYYYY".
*A male voice in the distance shouts "jesus christ".
*ql
You are wandering in a pleasant maze of hedges.
*Cenedra the bash-captain mage shouts "FENTOOOOON!!!! JESUS CHRIST!!!!!
FEEENNNTOOOON!!".
*A male voice in the distance shouts "ohh dear... was that the Man ???".
*A male voice in the distance shouts "report mosquito".
*A male voice in the distance shouts "report".
*zz
ZZZzzz...
*A male voice in the distance shouts "seifer...".
You have just been woken up!
Your stamina is 61.
*A male voice in the distance shouts "is back!".
*zz


Yes indeed Seifer was back PK?ing. At this stage there were 82 mobiles left to kill and only 33 minutes left in which to do it. A pretty hopeless situation but just possible with all players in tact. Now it was hopeless. Another tipped up monopoly board?

Seifer later claimed that a bash was just another set like any other and killing players is part of the game. Technically he is right. But the weekly bash is the one set a week when players have a defined objective and have to work as a team to achieve it. It is therefore highly enjoyable. Killing players during a bash is undesirable for various reasons.

The only way I can see of discouraging his behaviour is to team up on him as soon as he appears. The problem is that he makes sure he stays invis. And you have no idea he is about until he is on you. But even so if the player attacked were to shout for help and give a location we could probably get there in time to be effective. No, he does not like being bundled. I think he reckons it is unsportsmanlike. But hey it is legal, within the rules of the game. He can?t have it both ways.

As you woukd expect all players retired to the Tearoom and only one further mobile was killed. I think it was the wolf.

Those taking part were:


qw
Heiach the biohazard wizard
Krausersan the hero
Stampy the necromancer
Talnoy the superhero
Kiwi the bash-captain warlock
Zog the necromancer
Mosquito the dragonfly-slaying necromancer
Cenedra the bash-captain mage

At one stage we had three Bash-Captains.



[ This Message was edited by: royston on 04-10-2013 11:18 ]


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kiwijock
cleric

Joined: Dec 04, 2012
Posts: 238
From: Auckland, NZ
Posted: 04-10-2013 11:33   
yes Royston - that about sums this one up!!!

Kiwi became bash captain - but the result was the same as whenever I get elected general - we lost:

IMPORTANT MESSAGE - DO NOT VOTE FOR KIWI AS BASH GENERAL !!!!!

AND for those of you in the tearoom afterwards I want to state for the record that I believe it is bash general's (or captain's) duty to assist his loyal troops he was on a particular mission (heading for the evil wood) with - should they be attacked by an invisible 'someone'. For this to be called 'teaming' in a nasty way after the event by those who were not involved is just ridiculous! All players who are bashing for the common cause (ie kill the MOs) are a team - and we work as "Comrades in arms" or a "Band of Brothers" (ok or sisters). So personally I have no regrets as jumping in as Warlock against a necro who was PKing one of my team!

Yes Royston - rant is right - you are not the only one ranting after today. I survived a re-attack - and I suspect I will be re-attacked again - as a result. So where is the line between this and bullying..... ?

DO NOT GET ME WRONG here - I am not saying that PKers should not do what they do (its part of the game) - what I object to is being told in the TR afterwards that we can not work as a team together against a PKer during a bash. Isn't the common goal a victory against the MOs?

If it were several players teaming against a PKer outside a declared bash my opinions might be different - I'll be honest here - I am undecided .

and just in case you didn?t get the message:

IMPORTANT MESSAGE - DO NOT VOTE FOR KIWI AS BASH GENERAL !!!!!
_________________
"there are things we do not know we don't know." - Someone must have been talking about MUD


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Gadget
friar

Joined: Dec 08, 2001
Posts: 88
Posted: 04-10-2013 16:06   
It's a while since I've popped into the land, but enjoy reading these write ups from Royston.

The land used to be a much more dangerous place when large amounts of players wandered around (Enough to cause new resets to spawn).

My view on this would be to discourage the legitimate PKing with the previously mentioned bundling.

While the Bash is a common cause, it's still not a set where players should potter about unprepared. Be defensive! You know who the 'trusted' players are, they're the ones that turn up every week. Anyone else is a potential threat; watch out for them, and punish them if necessary.

Bashing is as much about protecting the bash as an event (looking after the chart, not swamping useful items) as it is about killing mobs. I'd ask the Wizzes for clarification but I'd argue pro-actively neutralising a player intent on destroying the chart, moving ptrs etc. is fair game regardless of level.

TL;DR - Man Up


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Miek
pioneer

Joined: Aug 29, 2006
Posts: 293
Posted: 04-10-2013 17:23   
I have never, ever seen a player penalised for 'teaming'. I think it's a phrase coined by those who believe MUD is a 1 vs 1 game.

My advice? Crack on, and team who you like! And take no offence to peoples' opinions to the contrary; they are entitled to an opinion

[ This Message was edited by: Miek on 04-10-2013 17:24 ]


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kaif
cleric

Joined: Aug 02, 2012
Posts: 133
Posted: 04-10-2013 18:56   
Nice write up Royston! The challenging nature of the bash was fun. Mosquito was attacked twice, once by Stampy (when Kiwi joined in unasked to help) and another time by I guess Seifer (while we were fighting the wraith -- good timing!).

I like the teamwork nature of bashes as well and the camaraderie. PKers will PK. Teaming, reasons, excuses - nothing is written in stone - there are no rules .

I just try to keep learning the game and improve (and I really enjoy the puzzles ). Characters can come and go -- but the knowledge and fun of those discoveries (and good times with some of the people I've met) remain. The rest of it might be a lot of, well, balderdash.

The squished Mosquito











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royston
ranger

Joined: Jul 14, 2007
Posts: 1217
From: Felixstowe, Suffolk.
Posted: 04-10-2013 20:10   
Quote:



nothing is written in stone - there are no rules .





I have felt for some time there are just two rules in MUD:

RULE 1 - Obey all the rules.

RULE 2 - Only Arch-Wizards know all the rules.

Seriously, the only place I have found any practices specifically outlawed is in the dictionary MUDspeke. I am referring to Multi-lining and Looby-looing



[ This Message was edited by: royston on 04-10-2013 20:14 ]


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Gaia
Wizard



Joined: Mar 20, 2011
Posts: 106
Posted: 04-10-2013 22:20   
It all well and good teaming but you have to remember PK's have friends too

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Armand
explorer

Joined: Nov 20, 2006
Posts: 530
Posted: 04-10-2013 22:28   
There is a solution for people who don't want to be pked in a bash: play a PP.

The only two differences between a PP and a non-PP is that the latter can make wiz, and can take part in fights. By definition therefore, by playing a non-PP you are making either one or both of the following statements: "I want to wiz", or "I want to fight". Either way, you are a legitimate target for a pker, bash or no bash.

I have no opinion on the teaming thing since I wasn't there.


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trollsmash
cleric

Joined: Apr 28, 2010
Posts: 154
Posted: 04-10-2013 23:45   
There is a solution for people who don't want to be pked in a bash: call for help when you get attacked.

The only two differences between fighting on your own and calling for help is that the latter option has a higher chance of survival, and it will make your companions descend upon the assailant like a pack of crazed baboons.


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royston
ranger

Joined: Jul 14, 2007
Posts: 1217
From: Felixstowe, Suffolk.
Posted: 06-10-2013 15:24   
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2446420/Saved-girls-Bloodied-juvenile-lion-suffers-hour-savaging-older-male-ends-females-protect-him.html

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Turrican
Arch-Wizard



Joined: Aug 19, 2001
Posts: 346
Posted: 06-10-2013 15:32   
Quote:

On 04-10-2013 11:05, royston wrote:
The sort of person who tips up a monopoly board when others are playing and laughs.


Not really, tipping the board isn't a valid move in monopoly, and if it was there would be counter moves like putting a heavy object on the board.

Quote:

On 04-10-2013 11:33, kiwijock wrote:
what I object to is being told in the TR afterwards that we can not work as a team together against a PKer during a bash.


You can, but it has some downsides - 1) you might bump into that PK when your friends arn't there, 2) you won't improve as a player much by solving the problem like that.

Quote:
Isn't the common goal a victory against the MOs?


I do notice all the treasure typically goes missing, and players really don't like losing points .

Quote:

On 04-10-2013 17:23, Miek wrote:
I have never, ever seen a player penalised for 'teaming'.


It's not illegal, but neither is swamping necklace0 at start of set then quitting over and over. You won't be very popular if you try to do that to wiz though.

Quote:
I think it's a phrase coined by those who believe MUD is a 1 vs 1 game.


No it's a 1 vs world game, the origin of this idea I think is Richard (there are hints to this effect in mudspeke which he wrote, or you could email him and ask his thoughts). At lower levels and in mobile bashes this is relaxed though in favour of non wizrunners having fun/learning/etc.

Quote:

On 04-10-2013 22:28, Armand wrote:
...


Good example of experienced player point of view.

Quote:

On 04-10-2013 23:45, trollsmash wrote:
...


Good example of less experienced player point of view.


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royston
ranger

Joined: Jul 14, 2007
Posts: 1217
From: Felixstowe, Suffolk.
Posted: 06-10-2013 21:31   
So there we have it. Conflicting advice but I know which I'll be taking on board. Time to bring on Pog. But not for two weeks as I'll be on holiday. I will try and pop into the tearoom though.

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Turrican
Arch-Wizard



Joined: Aug 19, 2001
Posts: 346
Posted: 07-10-2013 12:55   
Quote:

On 06-10-2013 21:31, royston wrote:
So there we have it. Conflicting advice but I know which I'll be taking on board. Time to bring on Pog. But not for two weeks as I'll be on holiday. I will try and pop into the tearoom though.


There isn't a simple solution. You could compromise, give limited help to lower level persona in a bash, and try come to an agreement with relevant PKs not to hold a grudge under these conditions.


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kaif
cleric

Joined: Aug 02, 2012
Posts: 133
Posted: 08-10-2013 21:34   
Quote:

I have no opinion on the teaming thing since I wasn't there.



Here's the snippet from my log up until the time the Co Bash-Captain jumped in to defend a comrade. (Thanks for the good intentions Kiwi). There was no request for assistance and the fight might have been going Mosquito's way.

My question, brought up by points in this discussion, is..is it multilining if Seifer is also Stampy to bring in a different persona to re-attack a character that you had just recently attacked? I think Kiwi mentioned that Seifer said in the tearoom that he was also Stampy (another Bash Captain).

The discussion here seems to have covered PKing during a bash and teaming, but not multilining and/or sequential attacks by one person with different personae. (I'm not even sure if the latter qualifies as the former.)

*Rough pasture.
Kiwi the warlock is here carrying an axe0.
*wave
OK, Mosquito the dragon-slaying necromancer waves.
*Kiwi the warlock glances around.
*qn
Looking northward, you see a place known as "east lush pasture". It appears
to be empty.
Looking eastward, you see a place known as "evil wood". It appears to be
empty.
Looking southward, you see a place known as "evil wood". It appears to be
empty.
Looking westward, you see a place known as "south lush pasture". It appears
to be empty.
Looking northeastward, you see a place known as "fast-flowing river". It
appears to be empty.
Looking southeastward, you see a place known as "evil wood". It appears to
be empty.
Looking southwestward, you see a place known as "dense forest". It contains
an unlit brand4 and a piece of paper.
Looking northwestward, you see a place known as "north lush pasture". It
appears to be empty.
*Kiwi the warlock waves.
*"sk one in there too i think
Mosquito the dragon-slaying necromancer says "sk one in there too i think".
*wh sk1
1 in the place known as "top of south mountain".
*Kiwi the warlock makes some magical gestures.
*Someone has stolen something from you!
*Someone is about to attack you.
*Someone misses you.
You miss someone.
*Someone has started to use something to fight!
*use wp
I don't know to what "weapon" you're referring.
*Someone misses you.
You miss someone.
*i
You are carrying the following:
the shoe0, the cardboard box1, the miser's purse and the firestone1.
The cardboard box1 contains:
the foot, the parasol0, the straw, the key53 and the disc.
The miser's purse contains:
the wolfsbane1, the wafer30 and 2 mandrakes.
Weight carried: 5kg 415g/100kg.
Objects carried: 4/12.
*Someone hits you (95/120).
You hit someone (10-14).
*dr shoe
Shoe0 dropped.
*Someone hits you (78/120).
You hit someone (5-9).
*vis foe
Your spell worked!
Stampy the necromancer has regained his visibleness!
*Stampy the necromancer makes some magical gestures.
*Stampy the necromancer makes some magical gestures.
*Stampy the necromancer makes some magical gestures.
*Stampy the necromancer makes some magical gestures.
*Stampy the necromancer makes some magical gestures.
*Stampy the necromancer misses you.
You miss Stampy the necromancer.
*g dagger f foe
Stampy the necromancer is holding onto the dagger0 too tightly for you to
steal it successfully.
*Kiwi the warlock has just left.
*Stampy the necromancer looks quickly at you.
*Stampy the necromancer misses you.
You miss Stampy the necromancer.
*ql foe
Stampy the necromancer looks superficially injured.
*ql
Rough pasture.
Left here is a right shoe.
Stampy the necromancer is here carrying a dagger0.
*Stampy the necromancer hits you (69/120).
You miss Stampy the necromancer.
*blind stampy
Your spell worked!
Stampy the necromancer has gone blind!
*Stampy the necromancer makes some magical gestures.
*Stampy the necromancer misses you.
You hit Stampy the necromancer (10-14).
Stampy the necromancer looks to have minor injuries.
*Kiwi the warlock has just arrived.
*Kiwi the warlock has just left.
*chance
Your spell worked!
1 to 50 down, 51 to 100 up.
The lucky number is 34!
Your magic goes down to 34 out of 120.
*chance
Your spell worked!
1 to 50 down, 51 to 100 up.
The lucky number is 52!
Your magic goes up to 66 out of 120.
*chance
Your spell worked!
1 to 50 down, 51 to 100 up.
The lucky number is 95!
Your magic goes up to 120 out of 120.
*Stampy the necromancer makes some magical gestures.
*Stampy the guardian hits you (51/120).
You miss Stampy the guardian.
You hit Stampy the guardian (10-14).
Stampy the guardian looks covered in wounds.
You hit Stampy the guardian (10-14).
Stampy the guardian looks covered in wounds.
You miss Stampy the guardian.
*Kiwi the warlock has just arrived.
*ql
Rough pasture.
Left here is a right shoe.
Kiwi the warlock is here carrying an axe0.
Stampy the guardian is here carrying a dagger0.
*eat a wf
MMMmmm..! It tasted of bitter roses!
(+5 = 37,546).
You feel better already.
Your stamina is 101.
*Stampy the guardian misses you.
You miss Stampy the guardian.
*cri stampy
Your spell failed!
It works on you instead!
You have suddenly and magically become crippled!
*cri stampy
Your spell failed!
It works on you instead!
You were crippled anyway...
*You hear sounds of combat, as Kiwi the warlock attacks Stampy the guardian.


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royston
ranger

Joined: Jul 14, 2007
Posts: 1217
From: Felixstowe, Suffolk.
Posted: 08-10-2013 23:06   
Quote:

On 08-10-2013 21:34, kaif wrote:


Here's the snippet from my log up until the time the Co Bash-Captain jumped in to defend a comrade.



There are many players better qualified than I am to answer this point. But as I see it Multilining is where a player plays two or more personas at the same time and can thus team with himself. Possibly you could play one persona on a desk top and the other on a convenient laptop. Anyone capable of doing this has my deepest admiration as I find it difficult enough to play one persona at one time.

Looby-looing on the other hand, is using one persona to get into an advantageous position, then logging off to bring on another persona to take the advantage from the position. This can be anything from stacking up treasure in a secret location and then using a second persona to swamp it, to fleeing from a fight and bringing on another persona at full stam to attack the now weakened opponent.

I hope I got that clear in my own mind at least. From your description it could be either or both. And both are no-nos.




[ This Message was edited by: royston on 08-10-2013 23:15 ]


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Armand
explorer

Joined: Nov 20, 2006
Posts: 530
Posted: 10-10-2013 19:03   
Yes, bringing in persona B to reatttack someone that you just recently attacked on persona A, is loobying. Persona B benefits from actions persona A took, in all kinds of ways e.g. knowledge of the Land configuration, knowledge of the victim's kit, the victim's reduced stats / wafers, and avoidance of the need to zz.

However, your log does not show any evidence that this took place - we'd need to know how much of a gap there was between A and B. Customs vary, but on BL it is no longer considered looby if the player has been offline for at least 5 - 15 minutes (depending on who you ask) as that is sufficient time for the game state to have moved on from the information you previously had. BL is a much faster paced game than MUD2, so you may need to wait longer than 15 minutes to remove all elements of looby in such a scenario.


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kaif
cleric

Joined: Aug 02, 2012
Posts: 133
Posted: 10-10-2013 21:24   
Quote:

we'd need to know how much of a gap there was between A and B. Customs vary..



I think that is the key - customs vary - which is why I asked. Seifer attacked after a brief gap apparently giving Mosquito and Kiwi time to restam. The first fight with Stampy was on the edge of evil wood, then we zzed, then killed vampire and were finishing the wraith when the 2nd attack on Mosquito and, afterwards, Kiwi occurred. Assuming about a minute for zzing, a minute for fighting V and a minute for killing wraith -- that would be around 3 mins? Maybe Kiwi or an Arch has a better sense of the timing.

At diminished stam and with his wafer gone from the first fight, it was over quickly (slow reactions too yes )for the bug. Mosquito wasn't expecting a 2nd attack from an invis in what was then called retaliation for "teaming" which Mosquito hadn't sought to do (see log above).

I think it's clear that Kiwi jumped in with good intentions but without understanding the customs. Somehow though, Mosquito was the primary target both times.

I keep asking these questions because I don't understand the practices (i.e., had to ask if teaming was okay in sorc wars).



[ This Message was edited by: kaif on 11-10-2013 01:07 ]


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