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MUDII Forum Index General Chat MUD CHAT SUMMARY (long)
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Author MUD CHAT SUMMARY (long)
Crowley
pioneer

Joined: Apr 14, 2003
Posts: 421
From: Birmingham
Posted: 18-02-2005 18:56   
Hi all.

Here?s my summary of last night?s chat. Note: this is not my opinion, just a fair summary of all the points that were made. I?ll add my opinion later, as if I didn?t make it clear enough last night :wink:

Meeting attendees:

Serenety
Tanis
Vulnax
Nemesis
Dominus (Joey ? wizard)
Gilgamesh
Testytest (Umbrarg ? arch wizard - Kicked for having a bugged client)
Firedemon
Boddington (Gothik)
Joe (Joejitzu)
Laura
Tsunami
Treehugger
Hawumph (arch-wizard)
Crowley (me, duh)

Latecomers:

Sabretooth (wizard)
Kitty
Min (Poledra)
Droo (wizard)

Apologies:

Wdi (work crisis)
Zordell
Gemz

Several people promised to attend, but didn?t show. Notable absentees: Azrael, Turrican

CHRONOLOGICAL LIST OF POINTS MADE

Crowley started the discussion, saying that he thought the main problem was a lack of new players.

Serenety said she thought the pricing didn?t compare well against newer games, which is a deterrent for new players.

Firedemon said he thought MUD should be made free.

Serenety said that she had been told as it runs with the small amount of players we have, MUD is currently at least breaking even.

Crowley said he thought the game needed to be advertised, and suggested online gaming comics.

Serenety said that she thought it needed a PR push to gaming websites, but that it would need something newsworthy. She suggested a full game update

Crowley said he thought that wouldn?t really be interesting to anyone outside the current community.

Hawumph said that new players just want a Mud, not a revolutionised one, but one that is proven to be active.

Serenety said that the current game presentation is not marketable, that the website needs to be far more accessible, and the clunky java client ditched for something more user friendly ? an ?officially? supported client.

Hawumph said that the website was not newbie-friendly. But also suggested that the reason the game was not newbie friendly was not just the presentation, but the players. The community as it stands is divisive, and hostile.

Crowley asked how many active wizards there actually are, since only Sabretooth and Hawumph had turned up at that point.

Hawumph indicated that wizards do turn up reasonably frequently, but chat in the wizroom

Serenety said that if wizards continually hide behind invisibility, then players stop caring about the game management ? what right do they have to comment on the game community if they refuse to interact with it.

Sabretooth said that wizards often stay invisible because they don?t want to face the hostility they get from certain players.

Tsunami interjected, pointing out that the game would be hugely more populated if just the people who had turned up to the chat actually played.

Hawumph said that players wanted wizards to be visible, and wizards wanted to be able to vis. This section of conversation then ended with no conclusion

Hawumph asked how we would get new players

Dominus said that he thought new players would be more likely to stay if they saw people were actually in the land playing and interacting, rather than sitting in the tearoom bitching about how bad the wizards are.

There was a short discussion about whether it was ok to play PPs.

Vulnax said the game needed its profile raised ? talked about on popular forums and sites.

Serenety again said that MUD should go free.

Laura raised a concern that the game would be filled with a million immature abusive PKs with free accounts.

Hawumph asked if player cliques were a problem

Boddington said he thought that wizards outnumbered mortals, and that they were perceived as a clique because they were never visible.

Hawumph asked if he was perceived as favouritist.

Serenety said that she thought it was unfair that players who just sit in the tearoom appear to be rewarded when she didn?t think they were even playing the game

Crowley said he thought people who sat in the tearoom were a vital part of the community as they were there and visible to anyone coming into the game.

Serenety said that people who sat in the tearoom were pointless and weren?t helping the game in any way.

Lots of people argued over this for about 2346 years.

Crowley asked how can we advertise the game

Vulnax suggested somehow getting on a magazine cover disk

Droo said that MUD had been featured in Edge magazine recently, but we?d seen no new players from that.

Another small argument about the fact that the current community was really divided came up, with blame shot at invisible wizards, and tearoom cliques.

Droo suggested the idea of a total reset of the game, including wizards.

It was suggested by several people that maybe the game could be changed, updated, with the reset.

Crowley suggested talking to a major ISP, such as Blueyonder or Tiscali: that ran a gaming service, about hosting MUD2 on their servers and obtaining new players that way.

Droo pointed out this would also require a reset of the wizlist and playerlist

Hawumph said that he wasn?t sure going corporate would be a good idea.

Hawumph asked if maybe randomly opening the pagoda and giants area might raise interest in the current player base.

Laura suggested a hidden trigger, or a quest, that could open giants for single players.

Droo suggested maybe dropping the subscription fee, and having a donation link instead for server costs.

Poledra suggested a free account for anyone, which only allowed you PP characters.

Firedemon suggested a free account that didn?t let you get higher than a certain level.

Crowley asked where we would let people know about free accounts

Droo suggested gaming magazines.

Crowley suggested high-traffic internet sites, like fark.com and slashdot.org, or penny-arcade.

Crowley suggested a possible plan of action: 1) Hawumph or whoever puts the free PP accounts into action, and Remakes the mudii.co.uk website so it's actually user friendly. Adding prominent links to maybe CLIO 2) when the site is actually READY for people to visit it, we go for the fark.com approach? or whichever sites we can.

Droo suggested advertising on the http://www.rllmukforum.com (ex edge-online forum)

Serenety said that the game must be shown to be active and supported by its management, otherwise new players wouldn?t stay.

Conversation drew to a close.


SUMMARY OF BEST POINTS (in my opinion)

We need to do two things:

A) Show that the game is active ?wizards actively interested in the community, and a community interested in actually playing the game

To do this, we as players need to make a conscious effort to not be so negative towards each other, and the wiz community. And the wiz community needs to make a conscious effort to be less cliquey, and to be more visible. How likely this is, given that several of the more prominent wizards and players didn?t even bother coming to the chat, is another question.

B) Get new players interested in the game.

To do this, we need to get word out there, and have an incentive to play. Ways to do this:

1) Make the website newbie friendly, including a link to a supported user-friendly client (Umbrarg?s new client? Clio?)

2) Create free accounts that only allow you to play Protected Personae.

3) Once this is done, advertise the fact by contacting ?geek? sites on the Internet, such as fark.com (user-submitted links), slashdot.org (no idea how to submit to this). Also (sorry, I thought of this after the discussion ended), send a press release to gaming news sites ? they?ll generally print anything (I know this, as I used to write for one :wink: ), especially if it?s a slow news day. Examples are gamespot.com, eurogamer.net, Yahoo?s Gamesdomain.com, pc.ign.com etc.

That?s all I?ve got! Hope you managed to read it all! :- )

*Crowley

_________________
*Apeoguest the surrealist guest says "I dunno, there must be a line
we've crossed when you combine necrophilia and bestiality".
My tired eyes droop

[ This Message was edited by: Halen on 18-02-2005 21:53 ]


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Shantigh
friar

Joined: Aug 27, 2001
Posts: 84
From: Firkins
Posted: 18-02-2005 19:13   
*reclaims the idea of restricted accounts as one she suggested and not min* Talk about thieving thunder. Min only suggested a free account PPs, I gave the base model and cited other sites that use it, yet don't get credited. :rolls eyes:

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Crowley
pioneer

Joined: Apr 14, 2003
Posts: 421
From: Birmingham
Posted: 18-02-2005 20:04   
Well, apologies if I mis-represented anyone, or missed any points. I'm sure we can all agree that it's getting a positive result out of this that's important, rather than squabbling over who had the best ideas.

It was a VERY long and VERY spam-filled log, so I did the best I could.
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*Fiz the necromancess says "I've been advised by everyone in the game to ignore you, Crowley".


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Gothik
cabalist

Joined: Aug 21, 2001
Posts: 61
From: London
Posted: 18-02-2005 20:33   
Crowley,

Your editorial stance may be biased, somewhat?? Can you not tone this down a tad or is your ego pre-wizzing the main problem

Please can a wiz/arch summarize the bits i was here for and the bits I missed. Just print the log? Edited if mayhaps required!

cheers

Boddington..sheesh


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Crowley
pioneer

Joined: Apr 14, 2003
Posts: 421
From: Birmingham
Posted: 18-02-2005 20:51   
I wish you'd stop harping on about my ego - I'm sorry if it comes across that way =( I promise, I'm the least egocentric person in the world. :(

The bit before where I state it's my opinion is just a retelling of what happened, I promise. I'm happy to mail you the complete log if you wish. Where did I go wrong? :-(

P.s. the complete log is 740k, and very unclear due to all the spam. Printing it here really wouldn't help, I think.

[ This Message was edited by: Halen on 18-02-2005 20:58 ]


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Gothik
cabalist

Joined: Aug 21, 2001
Posts: 61
From: London
Posted: 18-02-2005 21:08   
Crowley the frustrating cababilist,

I am not prfecient enuff to tell you where you may or may not have gone wrong but...

"Here?s my summary of last night?s chat. Note: this is not my opinion, just a fair summary of all the points that were made."

Halen the egoist but nice guy?

Hello???


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Crowley
pioneer

Joined: Apr 14, 2003
Posts: 421
From: Birmingham
Posted: 18-02-2005 21:19   
I'm sorry. I don't know what I've done wrong. I tried to be as fair as possible. I spent two hours on it today, only the bit at the end is my opinion.

I'm really sorry if you feel I've misrepresented someone. Or that I'm somehow being egotistical posting this. I offered because Hawumph asked for a volunteer to post a summary.


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Gothik
cabalist

Joined: Aug 21, 2001
Posts: 61
From: London
Posted: 18-02-2005 21:25   
Perhaps this was my personal take on it may have helped?

just a minor point..but thanks for taking a lot of time to care.

bows

Gothik
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Zordell
cleric

Joined: Aug 08, 2003
Posts: 216
Posted: 18-02-2005 21:45   
Hey folks. Sorry I missed out on the meeting. Looks like I wouldve had loads of fun. Hm. I am posting after reading log and forum. If we are going to have a bawling sesh on who gets credit well I would like to throw my toys out of my pram and announce it was all my idea Ok childish fit over. And darlin. As far as being a tearoomer- so what My money. My account. Get over it.
I can see great things happening, people!!!!
Take care

[ This Message was edited by: Zordell on 18-02-2005 21:46 ]

[ This Message was edited by: Zordell on 18-02-2005 21:47 ]


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Gemz
protector

Joined: May 23, 2003
Posts: 11
Posted: 18-02-2005 22:10   
Thanks for the summary crowley. I thought it was really good and informative. I didn't think it was biased.
Lets just hope we can get mud back to how it used to be. Fun, exciting, friendly. A place where everyone worked as a team (even the pks) and where people were motivated.
I have faith!
Wish I could have made the meeting, sorry.
Love to all.
xxxxx


[ This Message was edited by: Gemz on 18-02-2005 22:12 ]


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Tzunami
cabalist

Joined: Oct 28, 2001
Posts: 36
From: 97005
Posted: 18-02-2005 23:39   
I hear Azrael was going to show up but he became distracted by a large shipment of Ribena toothkind arriving at his local safeway.... he loves the toothkind.

I have a very short attention span, so I have no idea what anyone was talking about... but the free accounts up to a certain level sounded like a good idea (probably should make it sorc though, seeing as so many people are happy to make warlock then erm... not play).

It's good to see a few people actually still care about mud though. Thats the main thing.


[ This Message was edited by: Tzunami on 18-02-2005 23:40 ]


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Shantigh
friar

Joined: Aug 27, 2001
Posts: 84
From: Firkins
Posted: 19-02-2005 16:26   
On the basis of whose idea is what - if you can't even properly credit ideas and comments to the correct people, it puts the whole idea of summary in jeopardy - what else is wrong in it? Don't underestimate the importance of crediting people with the right things when doing minutes.

[ This Message was edited by: Shantigh on 19-02-2005 16:27 ]


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Shantigh
friar

Joined: Aug 27, 2001
Posts: 84
From: Firkins
Posted: 19-02-2005 16:32   
Also on the tearoomer point, I'm not going into the pros and cons of the purely socialiers on here, because I've got an essay to do and would rather not waste time on deaf ears, however, the easiest way to look at it is how many active players are there, and why are people not wanting to play - lone resets put people off, the tearoomers don't help the game, yes they are nice to socialise with - when they can extract themselves from their cliques - but, they would help the game more if they played, or at least sounded encouraging about playing rather than seemingly being proud that they don't play - which then begs the question, why don't they play? Oh, maybe the game's not worth playing.

Sure, it's your money, and do what you want. I'm getting beyond caring. But with the state of the player base, pure social players don't help - because you want as many as possible actually playing - so the land is busier, and people come on and want to play, because folk are already out there - then you can have fun resets, not just people in the tearoom because they don't want to play yet another lone reset. The tearoom comment wasn't a personal attack, as some of you seem to have taken it (that you do need to get over) - but more one for - the game would benefit if...


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Gemz
protector

Joined: May 23, 2003
Posts: 11
Posted: 19-02-2005 16:40   
yawn. hehe tsunami is funny.
xxxx


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Cradle
cleric

Joined: Jul 07, 2003
Posts: 230
From: England
Posted: 19-02-2005 21:03   
Crowley you son of a gun, you said you were gunna mention my sexyness, or did you forget lol

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Crowley
pioneer

Joined: Apr 14, 2003
Posts: 421
From: Birmingham
Posted: 19-02-2005 21:25   
P.s. Firedemon is sexy.

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Heiach
Wizard



Joined: Oct 31, 2001
Posts: 523
From: I can't remember!
Posted: 19-02-2005 21:55   
Dang.. gutted I missed the chat...
That's what I get for cutting out the internet for a while..

Advertising looks like the best option atm.. free advertising = even better!


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Cradle
cleric

Joined: Jul 07, 2003
Posts: 230
From: England
Posted: 20-02-2005 15:11   
cheers amigo now i can sleep at night

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Shantigh
friar

Joined: Aug 27, 2001
Posts: 84
From: Firkins
Posted: 22-02-2005 12:04   
Quote:

On 19-02-2005 21:55, Heiach wrote:
Dang.. gutted I missed the chat...
That's what I get for cutting out the internet for a while..

Advertising looks like the best option atm.. free advertising = even better!



Advertising and promotional activity once the game is a marketable item is the way to go, however, it's not as easy as just free advertising - it does have to be thought out, you have to identify who you are targeting, and then theme your advertising/promotions to catch their attention. You also can't just use banner ads and think somehow that it will save the day, it won't.

The other problem is that some advertising works, and some doesn't. Lord Leverhume said the following: "half the money you spend on advertising is wasted, the problem is in knowing which half" - in our case, it most likely won't come down to money, but time. And this means that promotion and advertising has to be somewhat diverse, put all your eggs in one basket, and it might just be the wrong basket!

Proper and correct advertising that stands any hope of working isn't as easy as banner ads on random high traffic sites.


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Gothik
cabalist

Joined: Aug 21, 2001
Posts: 61
From: London
Posted: 22-02-2005 13:34   
[quote]
On 22-02-2005 12:04, Shantigh wrote:
Quote:

Proper and correct advertising that stands any hope of working isn't as easy as banner ads on random high traffic sites.



so you are saying that advertising on various "Debbie does dallas" internet sites is not really the way to go? oh well...



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