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mud2.com closed? |
Angkor
pilgrim
Joined: Jan 30, 2004
Posts: 28 |  Posted: 03-08-2008 09:32
There's a particularly nasty way to use the Keg.
Pain In The (you've figured it out already)
Orcs: When I would play my main persona, after I reached Warlock there would occasionally be mobiles that appeared, Orcs. They would attack me on sight, often invisible, and there were more than a dozen of them. They were almost impossible for me to kill, so I would have to flee or die. Strange thing is, if I knew the orcs were on and brought in another persona I could kill the same orcs quite easily.
When I reached Mage, the orcs were always there, I think a Wiz had built a trigger into the game for my main persona. These mobiles made the game impossible for me to play, they only seemed to target me, nobody else. If *you* saw one of these orcs you would probably be happy, a few easy points for a quick kill, and they probably wouldn't have cost you a single point in stam. For me, they were deadly. I'm wondering if, when I make it back up to Warlock this time, they'll still be around. I have a feeling that they won't. defn Bully.
[ This Message was edited by: Angkor on 03-08-2008 09:35 ]
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Karya
Arch-Witch
Joined: May 28, 2005
Posts: 156 | Posted: 03-08-2008 09:48
Quote:
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On 03-08-2008 08:40, blib wrote:
Is there a 'popcorn' smiley on here? |
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We've updated the emoticons list with 8 new smilies including 2 for "popcorn".
Quote:
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On 03-08-2008 08:49, royston wrote:
OK
Kegging?
PITA?
I have never seen a Super Orc on MUDii. By the sounds of it I don't want to. |
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Kegging involves the keg, a player and a very messy end. If you think about what the keg is intended to do then you can imagine what might happen in other circumstances. I won't go into any more detail than that, that is for you to discover or experiement with.
PITA = pain in the arse or pain in the ass
No, there aren't any orcs on MUDII. The closest we had were Cat's fairies but they haven't been released in a long, long time.
ETA: Angkor has beaten me to it
ETA2: I thought I should also say that Cat's fairies weren't as nasty as the orcs sound!
[ This Message was edited by: Karya on 03-08-2008 09:51 ]
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gobstopper
pilgrim
Joined: Jun 13, 2008
Posts: 21 | Posted: 03-08-2008 10:59
The example given by Tethys there is clearly part of a long running series of events involving this joe persona. Reading through the lines it looks like he has been playing for an extended period of time in ways which Armand defines as cheating. I know through experience that you can get away with playing in various ways on .com (like plodding or killing lowlifes with high characters in order to get a clear set) which you can't on this mud.
As someone who has spent a bit of time with Armand I know that he does not bully people. He is also a very experienced player of both British Legends and mud2. Anyway, should probably wait for his post...
[ This Message was edited by: gobstopper on 03-08-2008 11:01 ]
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Angkor
pilgrim
Joined: Jan 30, 2004
Posts: 28 | Posted: 03-08-2008 14:17
Quote:
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On 03-08-2008 10:59, gobstopper wrote:
Anyway, should probably wait for his post...
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Like I said before, I can't wait to see Armand's post. Announcing it the way that he did certainly adds to the sense of drama
[ This Message was edited by: Angkor on 03-08-2008 14:19 ]
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Angkor
pilgrim
Joined: Jan 30, 2004
Posts: 28 | Posted: 03-08-2008 14:50
Quote:
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On 03-08-2008 09:48, Karya wrote:
We've updated the emoticons list with 8 new smilies including 2 for "popcorn".
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Most grateful, I've made good use of one of them myself already.
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Armand
explorer
Joined: Nov 20, 2006
Posts: 532 | Posted: 03-08-2008 18:30
Ok, lots of points to respond to, so please bear with me. I have little interest in getting myself involved in a public heated dispute between ii and .com players (this never being my intention) so hopefully we'll be able to lay this to rest. Apologies in advance if I ramble too much. I am also aware that I am up against a player who can quote directly from server logs whilst I have no such ability. I hope said player will keep to his promise of not abusing this position. It is all too easy to quote an isolated piece of conversation or event, and use it to paint a person in a bad light, so this is a direction I am going to try to avoid taking myself (although I will attempt to fill in some of the context I feel is missing where I've been quoted or my actions have been described).
1. Poaching.
Firstly, the event which is the root cause of all this. What some are referring to as "poaching". As some people will know, I've been playing BL for 13 years on-and-off, and MUD2 for about 9 or 10 years on-and-off (although I didn't get into the game properly until about 18 months ago). I've played on Compuserve, Wireplay, mud2.com, and mudii.co.uk. On my most recent bout of playing, I've been on .com for about 6 months. During that time I've seen many novices/guests come and go. I've nearly always said nothing, and nearly always never seen the player again. If I was on mud2.com to poach players, I would have spoken to every single one of them. In reality I spoke to around 4 or 5 during that 6 months. Most of those 4 or 5 players DID stick around (sometimes even on both servers) for at least a few weeks, and at least one of them who I shall not name is now a regular MUD2 player. I'd rather see a newbie playing mud2 *somewhere* than not at all, and this has been my logic on the few occasions I've spoken to players I came across who I thought would disappear for good. I have never attempted to "poach" someone who is already a mud2.com regular, and furthermore have had many conversations with players who have played on both (including at least one .com wiz), during which we've discussed the two servers (yes, we've discussed the pros/cons of .com in the ii.co.uk tearoom!).
I didn't think to save a copy of Viktor's message the other day, but I recall something to the effect that I was "oozing with appreciation" for his efforts. I feel it only fair to mention the parts of my conversation that were left out. Like when I said (paraphrasing) "I think what you did for BL was great as well as what you did for MUD2 in the past, but I think that currently having two servers is causing the game to lose players". I still stand by that, and in fact one of the main things I felt after this conversation (and especially after seeing his message) was guilt at the possibility that I hurt his feelings. I would have gone on to say more to him, but unfortunately at that moment he lost his temper and shut down the game while I was mid sentence, and deleted my account, so I never had an opportunity to say any more. I composed an email to him in which I attempted to make amends, but being a person who likes to sleep on such things (its too easy to say the wrong thing in the heat of the moment), I woke up to see that things had moved to a point where my email didn't seem relevant anymore, so it was never sent.
The other issues I see as being largely irrelevant to the main topic here (and I find it a bit tacky that they're even mentioned in this thread). I will try to stick to as condensed a version of my side as possible, because frankly there is a lot of backstory which has been left out, and I am not in the business of assassinating people's character. Those who know me well know will know that I had justified reasons for doing some of the things I did. So, in order of when the points were raised in this thread:
2. Bullying / wiz cheating.
In my experience of the game over the years, this sort of accusation occurs on a regular basis. Players see things happen in-game which they can't explain, and some are inclined to assume wiz cheating. Or players reach a high level (warlock/mage in mud2, legend in BL) and react badly to the fact that they are much more of a target than they used to be. These sorts of players are quick to label the pkers as "bullies" or worse. With one exception (the keg incident which I will come to later) I do not believe myself to have ever engaged in "bullying" tactics. Yes, I have attacked a certain player with great frequency, but that player also has a habit of going to extreme lengths to avoid all contact with other players as soon as he reaches warlock/mage. I have also been known to attack this player's lowbies, but this was during a time when the player was bringing on armies of personae to drink at the spring and contract me in the next reset. I explained to him that I would leave him alone if he left me alone, and indeed this has not occured for some time. I have also been told by this player (during an attempt on my part to foster some kind of friendly, or at least tolerant, relationship with him) that the main reason he plays MUD2 is to harass and wind up pkers (when asked why, he told me because he enjoys it). As said by Angkor earlier in this thread "I could also give a list of things that I've done myself to try the patience of Wizzes and opponents". I will be fair to Angkor and also quote his next sentence: "none of that would alter the events that I attempted to describe in my original post". So if Angkor is happy to drop this particular line of discussion, I will also, and I will not attempt to enumerate his "list" for him. In fact the subject of my entire paragraph here is never one I would have brought up, but since it has been, I have attempted to show that there are two sides to it.
3. Looby (Tethys's post).
There are two separate events here, which have been (incorrectly) mixed into one. In fact the "Joe" of the first event, is not the "Joe" of the second. They were two different players.
I'll deal with them one at a time:
(a) I absolutely deny that I had a "wiz accomplice" in the first event. From memory (having no logs available), here is what I remember happening: I killed Joe's warrior as stated. The warrior then attempted to avenge himself by attacking me with persona after persona, including a mage (remember, I'm a swordy here). When the mage logged on, I was instructed by an invisible wiz to "let him attack you", presumably in order to reveal the cheating which was about to occur. This was in no way a preplanned thing (how can you plan to kill someone and have them looby to reattack you?) and that instruction was my first contact with the wiz in question, whose identity I did not even know. Ok, so I probably shouldn't have done the "k door" thing (my logic at the time I think was to attempt to restore myself to where I was in the first fight), but there was essentially nothing wrong with what happened (other than the mage's actions, for which the FOD seemed appropriate). I have to wonder, if there was something wrong with it, why was nothing done (or even talked about) by an arch-wizard at the time, and why is this being brought up (for the first time) 5 months later on a mudii.co.uk forum, other than in some kind of attempt to discredit me? And what about the loobying actions of the mage, am I to understand that this sort of thing is condoned over there?
(b) Here's what happened, again from (rusty) memory. I played my second persona with the objective of making the set harder for the mage (for those who have played a mage, you probably know what I'm talking about here, I'm not going to reveal any game secrets). In the process I came across a keg that I had dropped from my previous persona who had been in the same set. I used this against the mage. Whilst this does not in any way excuse what I did, I did not deliberately pre-plan to hoard the keg with my first persona (its not like the keg is hard to reach anyway), but when I came across it with my second persona I made a stupid spur-of-the-moment choice. Being normally a rule-abiding player I fully accepted the blame for this at the time, and even sent a mudmail to Tethys saying that docking me to sorc was too lenient a punishment. I also told the mage in question that I agreed what I did was wrong. So why is this being brought up now? The only possible reason is to try to discredit me.
I would also note that the two players from (a) and (b) have loobied against me on numerous occassions, and mostly my reaction has been to do nothing about it, other than attempt to engage in fights with them. As mentioned above, I have attempted to engage in friendly conversation with the aforementioned player, but been met with hostility. I like to think I am generally an easy going person who tries to get along with people, but unfortunately this does not always work due to the way that I play the game (I am a pvp-oriented player, and some players are very anti-pvp). It is always my hope that people can separate game from friendship, but the reality is not always ideal in this regard.
As a final point under this header, I would like to question the appropriateness of referring to me as Armand (not a name I even use on mud2.com! I have to wonder how the link was made..) whilst protecting the cheating player's identity ("Joe").
4. "Announcing it the way that he did certainly adds to the sense of drama".
I'll try not to lower this into petty character attacks, if you agree to do the same. Yesterday I worked a 14 hour shift with a 2 hour break, from 11am until 1am and had no time to type this long post, as I explained. I announced it early because I felt I had been quiet for too long and didn't want people to think I was ignoring the issue.
5. Concluding thoughts.
So there we have it. Not as short as I would have liked, but I have cut out as much as I felt possible. It is my opinion that the main thing of relevance here is the poaching, for which I hope I have effectively conveyed my side of things. I am not at all keen to pursue anything involving other events on mud2.com (and hope that the players in question feel the same), but if they really insist on pursuing it then I will certainly continue to add my side.
I would like to take the opportunity to extend an apology to Viktor for giving the impression that I have no regard for the work and effort he has put in to MUD1 / MUD2. On the contrary, I do appreciate the effort he has made for the game. I have my opinions as to MUD2's already small playerbase being split across two servers (and by the way Tethys once told me that he at least partially agrees with my viewpoint here), but this in no way detracts from what Viktor has done for the game. When Viktor spoke to me on mud2.com the other day, the atmosphere and tone of the conversation was not conducive to a reasoned and calm discussion. It is my hope that I may be able to have such a conversation with him in the future, but I understand that this may not be something that has a realistic chance of happening.
EDIT: fixed minor spelling and layout mistakes
[ This Message was edited by: Armand on 03-08-2008 22:57 ]
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Armand
explorer
Joined: Nov 20, 2006
Posts: 532 | Posted: 03-08-2008 20:08
A couple of other minor points.. (1) I'm mostly AFK whichever mud I'm on (2) I've never seen a Super Orc (not denying their existence, just that I've never seen it so it must be pretty rare).
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Zordell
cleric
Joined: Aug 08, 2003
Posts: 216 | Posted: 03-08-2008 20:20
Anyone who knows you will be fully aware of the fact that you are not the way you have been painted here in this forum. To be quite frank, I read the entire forum from day 1 and my jaw dropped at the amount of people who were so willing to go RAR ATTACK WITH PITCHFORKS without wanting to hear the other side of the story.
Shame on you people!
EDIT= I am the typo queen. Everyone knows this 
[ This Message was edited by: Zordell on 03-08-2008 20:24 ]
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Armand
explorer
Joined: Nov 20, 2006
Posts: 532 | Posted: 03-08-2008 20:31
Perhaps, but sadly to Angkor I am this "evil bullying person" because we've always had an acrimonious relationship. Not due to my choice, but once you get started down that path with someone its hard for either side to see each other in a different light.
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gobstopper
pilgrim
Joined: Jun 13, 2008
Posts: 21 | Posted: 03-08-2008 21:13
To be fair, most people didn't know who it was first, or whether that person would discuss the situation at all. People were reacting to what they had read, and now they can react to Armands post. The reaction wasn't that bad!
[ This Message was edited by: gobstopper on 03-08-2008 21:14 ]
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Karya
Arch-Witch
Joined: May 28, 2005
Posts: 156 | Posted: 03-08-2008 22:10
To be fair to everyone who has contributed to this thread, if someone started a thread indicating that a mudii player has been trying to steal away players from mud2.com I think that the automatic response is one of being appalled and of disbelief. People displayed emotions here that are only a natural reaction to what was presented at the time. And as Gobstopper pointed out, no one knew or predicted how events would play out on here. Obviously, with this situation there is a LOT more going on, but as I pointed out in my earlier post, the attempt to steal players from one game to another HAS happened in the past and is likely to happen again. It will always be our policy to condemn such actions.
Obviously there is a lot more to this than first appeared and it is an unusual situation to hear so many sides of an event. Whilst this is an interesting scenario being played out on here it is ultimately a mud2.com issue. Thank you to everyone who has contributed to clarify the ins and outs of what happened and it is reassuring to find out that no one has been acting maliciously.
However, please let?s not let a conflict that happened on mud2.com affect our community here in a negative way.
I think now is the time to use one of the other smilies I added this morning - 
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Zordell
cleric
Joined: Aug 08, 2003
Posts: 216 | Posted: 03-08-2008 22:28
Amen to that Karya!
We do have a very good community and let me take this opportunity to plug the Mudmeet (by this I mean lets move on to happier topics haha)!
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Armand
explorer
Joined: Nov 20, 2006
Posts: 532 | Posted: 03-08-2008 22:37
/agreed (all three preceding posts!)
By the way, you might hear Blib say something about my spelling mistakes. Don't believe a word of it! Blib is a compulsive liar.
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royston
ranger
Joined: Jul 14, 2007
Posts: 1217
From: Felixstowe, Suffolk.
| Posted: 03-08-2008 22:44
I think everybody?s initial knee-jerk response was natural, bearing in mind the seriousness of the allegations. However I did urge caution and expressed the need for corroboration. Corroboration came when reading Viktor?s welcome page but only with regard to the question of poaching.
From the start poaching seemed unlikely to me because there was no motive. It is easy to sit in the Tearoom and pretend to be a Novice and ask the right questions to get unguarded answers, then quote those answers out of context. This is called acting as an Agent Provocateur and if IRL such conduct is proven against those prosecuting in a court case, their evidence, quite rightly, is disregarded. We still do not know who fbi is but if any of us find ourselves in a similar situation we should bear in mind Bambi?s mother?s maxim: ?If you cannot say something nice about someone, it is better to say nothing at all?.
In the matter of bullying, it is made clear in the MUDspeake Dictionary, where they are clearly defined, that Looby-looing and Multi-Lining are illegal. This is the only place (as far as I can tell) where any rules of the game are laid down in writing. Anybody who breaks these rules can have no complaint about what happens to him (or her) afterwards. I would question the Wizdom of a Wiz seeking the aid of a mortal in catching a rule breaker. He ought to be able to do that on his own or perhaps with the help of another Wiz.
Bullying is difficult to define. There is a huge grey area and what one person may see as bullying another would regard as robust play. This is open to interpretation and we rely on Wizzes to sort it out as they see it. Three Warlocks attacking a single swordsman may be regarded as bullying; but what about three swordsmen attacking one Warlock?
I am no expert, but frankly I cannot believe anyone can create a mobile that tells players apart and then change its values of Stam etc. as the result of knowing the name of the player it comes across. Maybe Richard can but then he wouldn?t.
We all know Armand well. What has been said about him is completely out of character. And I need say no more on that score.
There has obviously been a vendetta going on over there and I am saddened that it should have been pursued with such seriousness and determination. I am also saddened that its effects have been felt over here by us all.
EDIT:
Sorry to go on so long. I see several posts have been added since I started to write this.
[ This Message was edited by: royston on 03-08-2008 22:49 ]
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blib
explorer
Joined: Jan 01, 2007
Posts: 533
From: N.London (just)
| Posted: 03-08-2008 22:57
Quote:
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On 03-08-2008 22:37, Armand wrote:
Blib is a compulsive liar.
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Armand is the most honourable person ever to have played any version of this game.
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Angkor
pilgrim
Joined: Jan 30, 2004
Posts: 28 | Posted: 04-08-2008 03:32
Quote:
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On 03-08-2008 20:31, Armand wrote:
Perhaps, but sadly to Angkor I am this "evil bullying person" because we've always had an acrimonious relationship. |
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No, the player who goes under such names as hpasfwrkl (or similar) is the bully (along with the Wiz/zes), and I know that's not you because you don't appear to multi-line - that other player used a trigger to enter whenever I came in, you would have often seen him come in moments after I entered the game.
I guess you didn't see those Orcs because they only appeared when my Warlock or Mage entered the Land, they were often invisible and they wouldn't have attacked you, only me. You didn't seem to spend much time in the game after you made Warlock, so you wouldn't have been aware of them. From a comment made to me by an Arch a couple of days ago, I suspect that they won't be coming back on in the future.
[ This Message was edited by: Angkor on 04-08-2008 03:33 ]
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Zalagar
pioneer
Joined: Mar 05, 2002
Posts: 257 | Posted: 04-08-2008 04:41
Okay, let me set the record straight about the orcs.
The orcs were first introduced long ago on NVN (at least that's where I first saw them. For all I know, they may go back further than that). They are a wiz's creation designed to test players, and keep them from playing on autopilot.
Many of them really aren't very tough. They range from being only slightly tougher than the goblins, to being tough magic users with high stamina. The smaller ones are the sort you probably won't have to use up any wafers on (unless you already went into the fight injured). The bigger ones can cast spells, including invis. There were at least 15 of them last time I encountered them.
A player who prepares to face them can take down the bigger ones. If you'd like to stand and fight them, I'd advise gathering wafers, making sure your stamina and magic points are maxed out, and getting a good weapon.
They've only appeared on .com, and have yet (as far as I know) to appear on .co.uk. But if you encounter them, try not to panic. Of course, if you appear to be losing a fight with one of them, don't be afraid to flee.
Okay, this orc thing is a digression from the subject of this thread, but I felt I had to set the record straight.
Laura/Zalagar
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Angkor
pilgrim
Joined: Jan 30, 2004
Posts: 28 | Posted: 04-08-2008 05:12
Quote:
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On 04-08-2008 04:41, Zalagar wrote:
A player who prepares to face them can take down the bigger ones. If you'd like to stand and fight them, I'd advise gathering wafers, making sure your stamina and magic points are maxed out, and getting a good weapon.
Laura/Zalagar
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Thanks for the info Laura...if I came across the orcs as a necro, they would operate just as you described them.
However, as a Warlock or Mage, they would go for me almost the moment I went north, and so this meant that I usually didn't even have the chance to pick up a brand, never mind a decent weapon or wafers. They were often invisible, so I couldn't be sure if i was fighting another player or a mobile until my magic warmed up and I could vis the foe. If I had somehow managed to get a wafer, they would immediately steal it from me, or steal the container that held it.
This made the game impossible for me to play - I would have had a chance if it worked as you described, but as it was I didn't have a hope in hell as a Mage.
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tethys
novice
Joined: Aug 03, 2008
Posts: 2 | Posted: 04-08-2008 14:25
First, I appreciate everyones comments on this thread especially Armand who
did an admirable job of stating his case. Of course I have some disagreement but the
last thing I want is to engage in some kind of usenet type flame war. In fact, I expect
this to be my last post on this topic.
That being said please permit me to make 2 specific points and then some general comments.
One, I should not have used the word accomplice to refer to the wiz, I had no evidence to
use that term. What I should have written was something like - the wiz who has been a stone
in my boot for a long time and happened to be in a position to exploit a bad situation - but
that would be awkward In any case, I apologise to Armand for implying improper behavior
on his part. Similarly I did not intend to discredit him as a person, all I can see is
the in-game personae.
Two, I will take Armand at his word that his intentions were not malicious however playing,
often daily, sometimes several times a day, on a site that one does not think should be
running remains a curiosity but then mud itself is a curiosity.
As to the general situation, we had a problem that doesn't easily fit in to the "bullying" and
"poaching" terms. We will work our way through it, I expect. Also special thanks to Foddy and
Karya for your prompt and strong statements even though they were unneccesary as everyone
already knew you would never condone any actions that would cause harm to either site.
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