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MUDII Forum Index General Chat mud2.com closed?
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Author mud2.com closed?
Angkor
pilgrim

Joined: Jan 30, 2004
Posts: 28
Posted: 01-08-2008 02:50   
It appears that some lowlife (in the non-MUD sense of the word)has been white-anting Viktor and his site at mud2.com
Way to go. Viktor's site was always quieter than this one, but he maintained it well and has always been responsive and helpful to his players.
Whoever it was who has been sitting in the tearoom and sending players away from there, give yourself a great big pat on the back.
What a sleaze!


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ewarwoowar
cabalist

Joined: Jul 21, 2008
Posts: 40
From: West Sussex
Posted: 01-08-2008 07:05   
What's 'white anting'?

Where is the person you mention sending people? Simply away or here? Either way, it's not very good form to do that.

Can you (or Viktor) find out who it is? Perhaps some IP checking maybe? I'd be very disappointed if it was someone from this forum.

However, I've just been over to MUD2.com and signed in as a guest and it all appears to be up and running, so 'closed' is probably a little overstated.


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Angkor
pilgrim

Joined: Jan 30, 2004
Posts: 28
Posted: 01-08-2008 08:33   
Eroding...think of what termites do to a house, that's what white-anting is.

mud2.com isn't closed,apparently...when I tried to log in there from work I couldn't get in, so I went to the site (mud2.com) and saw Viktor's message, which has since been taken down. That's why I put a question-mark in the subject line here - something had happened, I couldn't log in, Viktor was talking about taking the site down. I wasn't sure that he had, but I couldn't get in.

I don't know who the culprit(s) is/are, but the person who spoke to my novice there was a tearoomer called Fbi, who is a warlock on .com. He told me that if I came over here and used the same name he would "look out for" me. I tried to find out who it was, but without success. He did't realise that I was a regular who he has been hounding for some months there.

The "welcome" message from Viktor when you log on there sums things up. I guess Viktor knows who it is. He certainly knows where Fbi is from.


[ This Message was edited by: Angkor on 01-08-2008 08:35 ]


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Foddy
Arch-Wizard



Joined: Aug 19, 2001
Posts: 138
Posted: 01-08-2008 09:28   
While I would love to say that I hope that the player doing this is not from mudii.co.uk, it'd be foolish to believe that, which is very saddening.

The actions described by Viktor are both inappropriate and completely out of order. In case anyone is in any doubt, I detest behaviour like this.

Personally, I believe that two incarnations of MUD is good for the game, and would hate to see mud2.com close. An attack on mud2.com is an attack on MUD itself.

If anyone is considering persisting in these sorts of actions, please stop.

Foddy


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royston
ranger

Joined: Jul 14, 2007
Posts: 1217
From: Felixstowe, Suffolk.
Posted: 01-08-2008 09:37   
'White Anting'is a good phrase which I too have never come across before. It also implies to me destroying from within.

I have been playing here for just over a year now and you get to know the character of the players behind their personas. I can think of no one who would endulge in this sort of base activity.

I have never come across a persona 'fbi'.

In any case, what would be the point? There is no need for us to poach players under any circumstances.

It has to be a disgruntled palyer from within.

I hope he gets his comeupance.


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Angkor
pilgrim

Joined: Jan 30, 2004
Posts: 28
Posted: 01-08-2008 09:38   
I was a bit worried when I started this thread that it would provoke an argument, but I'm really happy to see the reasoned responses. I guess if anyone here is a Wiz on both MUDs they might know who Fbi is, not that it matters much I guess.
I might add that I've only ever been treated in a friendly and courteous manner on co.uk, whereas at .com I've been subjected to abuse and classic bullying, to the extent that the game has at various times become unplayable for me. I'm convinced that this is the action of only a couple of people, but I know that it's happened to other people as well (I've seen it happen), and most have just given up on the game, which is sad. Twice as sad because Wizzes are involved in the bullying.
I persist with the other MUD because I'm bloody minded and I won't let them get the better of me.
<end of rant>


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blib
explorer

Joined: Jan 01, 2007
Posts: 531
From: N.London (just)
Posted: 01-08-2008 10:11   
Hmm...maybe I should wander on over to the other MUD. After a few days talking to me I reckon this 'Fbi' chap would want to take his own life!



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ewarwoowar
cabalist

Joined: Jul 21, 2008
Posts: 40
From: West Sussex
Posted: 01-08-2008 12:21   
Thanks for the explanation Angkor (your name's not Wayne by any chance is it? ) - all makes sense now.

Definately agree with the sentiment expressed here though, that doing things like that is out of order.

While it would be nice to have more players on mudii.co.uk I don't think it would be fair to do so to the detriment of mud2.com.

I've posted a couple of 'players wanted' ads on a couple of adventure forums pointing to mudii.co.uk in the hope of generating some new blood, but that's as far I'd go personally.

I've not seen the comments put up by Viktor, but then I only signed on as a guest (I don't have an account), so perhaps these are only shown to registered players?


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ewarwoowar
cabalist

Joined: Jul 21, 2008
Posts: 40
From: West Sussex
Posted: 01-08-2008 12:34   
Quote:

On 01-08-2008 09:38, Angkor wrote: ...at .com I've been subjected to abuse and classic bullying, to the extent that the game has at various times become unplayable for me...and most have just given up on the game, which is sad.


Unbelievable! What I don't get is what these people hope to achieve by doing this - surely the more people playing MUD the better it is (OK, up to a point) so why drive people away?

Quote:

On 01-08-2008 09:38, Angkor wrote: Twice as sad because Wizzes are involved in the bullying.


I would have said bloody infuriating! Do you know if Viktor is planning on doing anything to stop this sort of behaviour?

Quote:

On 01-08-2008 09:38, Angkor wrote:
I persist with the other MUD because I'm bloody minded and I won't let them get the better of me.


Good for you: although, if it continues (or becomes unbearable) you'd all be very welcome here, and I think (hope) that the wizzes here would stop this sort of thing in its tracks.


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Zordell
cleric

Joined: Aug 08, 2003
Posts: 216
Posted: 01-08-2008 12:43   
Hullo everyone,

I know I am not normally the rational one- I am normally the ditzy gal but I would like to make a point.

There are normally two sides to every story, so far we have only heard the one so while everyone is rushing to point fingers and wag, why not wait for the whole truth to come out?

I am sure it will. Doesn't it always? Problem is, will people actually listen to the truth?


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Angkor
pilgrim

Joined: Jan 30, 2004
Posts: 28
Posted: 01-08-2008 13:43   
Quote:

On 01-08-2008 12:43, Zordell wrote:

There are normally two sides to every story, so far we have only heard the one so while everyone is rushing to point fingers and wag, why not wait for the whole truth to come out?



You're right, of course, and I would truly love to hear what 'the other side' would have to say in his/her defense.
But I can only give my side of the story, and I've been as honest as possible about this, and I've tried to keep it on an unemotional level.
I could list things that have happened to me on MUD that I feel are unfair or wrong, and I could also give a list of things that I've done myself to try the patience of Wizzes and opponents, but none of that would alter the events that I attempted to describe in my original post.

Thanks again to everyone who has posted in this thread. You've restored my faith somewhat. And if I do decide to play seriously here I feel pretty sure that when my personae die at your hands (I;ve got to be the most hopeless fighter in all MUDdom)it will be because you've played fairly - I can cope with that!


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Angkor
pilgrim

Joined: Jan 30, 2004
Posts: 28
Posted: 01-08-2008 13:45   
Quote:

On 01-08-2008 12:21, ewarwoowar wrote:
I've not seen the comments put up by Viktor, but then I only signed on as a guest (I don't have an account), so perhaps these are only shown to registered players?



I went in as a guest to check this, and no Viktor's comments don't show up there, they only display when you log in with a registered account. (No, my name's not Wayne btw)

[ This Message was edited by: Angkor on 01-08-2008 13:47 ]


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gobstopper
pilgrim

Joined: Jun 13, 2008
Posts: 21
Posted: 01-08-2008 14:43   
Poaching players from another mud is unfair and not something that I agree with.

Given that people are justifiably angry already, I'm slightly wary of discussing this here, but I had been thinking a couple of weeks ago about attempting to re-open the debate about merging the two muds.

I can see why in the past it has been beneficial to keep two muds open and in competition. It kept people on their toes, makes sure that the players have choice and allowed for two different mud cultures to grow. Obviously if the two muds did merge it would also create issues with wizards and witches and personas being moved over.

The benefits of merging, however, would in my opinion outweigh the drawbacks. I know Foddy has said above that he believes two mud2s are good for the game but I just can't see how that is true these days. What I believe Fbi was doing (using a badly concieved method which clearly benefitted this mud to the detriment of .com) was attempting to combat the dilution of the two mud's collective player base.

Having two muds means that new players that come accross mud2 will either find .com or .co.uk. Depending on which mud they enter they will get a very different experience. On .com there will be less people to help with their queries or make the game interactive. The server is also slower which can be frustrating. The news and website for .com is also out of date, and gives the impression to new players that there is little life going on. I believe that a lot of these players, that would potentially have stayed, are being put off both muds.

Two muds obviously also means two sets of players. This was definitely useful in Wireplay days because the muds were so different, but now it just seems to decrease the number of people playing on both muds.

I think the major sticking point to a merger would be the cultural difference, and I can definitely understand that players from both muds are attached to their own version, but surely we all share more in culture than we differ. We are after all, all mud2 players.


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ewarwoowar
cabalist

Joined: Jul 21, 2008
Posts: 40
From: West Sussex
Posted: 01-08-2008 15:23   
Well put gobstopper.

As a recent newcomer to mud2, I found mudii purely by chance (I was looking to play British Legends again and went foraging around the site), and had to make a choice as to whether to sign up for mud2.com or mudii.co.uk (although I guess, as they are both free, there's nothing stopping me from joining both, but fail to see the benefit of doing so).

For me the decision was based mainly on the domain name (i.e. .co.uk indicated to me that this was a uk-based mud whereas .com gave me the impression it was a US-based mud) as I wanted to ensure that there would be players around at the times that I would most likely play. However, before making the choice, I also went through various pages of both websites and, as gobstopper said, felt that mudii was more 'up to date' or at least more active more recently.

I have assumed that mud2.com is running the same version of MUD2 as mudii.co.uk, and so the thought of the player base being diluted had occurred to me too, and could be counter-productive for the game - or at least for one of the sites. I heard a sales mantra a long time ago that said 'choices cause confusion' and, where there is very little to decide between two choices, this can cause the most dithering...and most people simply make the third choice, i.e. choose not to choose and go elsewhere.

I think it would be nice to have more players around, but imagine that it would depend largely on the timezone that players are in as to whether or not there were actually any more on at the same time as me.

Having more players might mean that this website (and those it links to) attracts more activity (although this won't necessarily be so). An inactive or seldom updated website gives the impression of a dead or dying site and tends to dissuade visitors from exploring too much further. Having more players - and hence more activity (perhaps!) - might even persuade more visitors to have a go a playing or, if they have played a game or two, perhaps for them to stay.

Is the in-game culture so very different between the two sites? I can't answer that as I haven't played on mud2.com, but my gut feeling says 'no' (said bullying/harrassing aside).

Is there still a NEED for two versions to be running? I know that historically we had British Legends which was run by Viktor as free-to-play vs MUD2 run by MUSE (and later by WirePlay), but I was quite surprised to find two free versions.

I like it here. And I'm sure that many (most?) on mud2.com would say the same.

I would support a merging of the player base, so long as the players and characters I've started to get to know here were present in the merged game/site because, for me, they ARE the game. MUD2 is a great adventure, but an empty Land is not worth visiting very often.

[ This Message was edited by: ewarwoowar on 01-08-2008 16:26 ]


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royston
ranger

Joined: Jul 14, 2007
Posts: 1217
From: Felixstowe, Suffolk.
Posted: 01-08-2008 16:31   
I cannot disagree more with the idea of a merger. Having two MUDs (or possibly three if you count BL) is healthy. MUD is like a living organism. It develops and changes. If the ambience is bad in one resulting in it becoming unpopular and possibly folding, or it appears to be dying on its feet because the web site is not maintained and up-to-date, then that is the fault of the players for allowing it. The better MUD will survive.

If half of what has been said about the atmosphere in MUD2 is correct (and it is a big ?if?) then following any merger I would expect them too comply to the way we behave. And why on Earth should they do that? If that is the way they want to play and it is the right way then they will survive without us.

If the problem for us is that our player base is too small, (a moot point), the way forward to recruit brand new players. This is best done by word of mouth and by having a really attractive and active web site.

One last point: If I am right in believing that MUDii is played mainly in the UK and MUD2 mainly in Canada and the USA, following a merger there?s going to be a lot of people playing at night. How on Earth am I going to sneak to Mage, let alone Wiz?


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Miek
pioneer

Joined: Aug 29, 2006
Posts: 292
Posted: 01-08-2008 17:02   
some good points all round,
i'd love to see a merger in muds myself - the more players the better

/zedar

[ This Message was edited by: Miek on 01-08-2008 17:26 ]


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ilisity
cabalist

Joined: Mar 13, 2008
Posts: 46
Posted: 01-08-2008 20:19   
I have to agree with gobstopper on this one . When I recently started looking for mud having played it briefly in the wireplay days , I first stumbled on the mud2 site and found it too be pretty much dead . It was only when 1 of the players (i think there was 3 including myself on at the time ) suggested mudii.co.uk . I doubt I would of even bothered getting into the game if i hadn't found this site .

I think anyone who goes on the mud2 site becomes instantly aware that's its not going be much fun , as mud is near impossible to play without other players to help you .

So I think mud2 being open is not healthy but more puts off new players . So a merger would be a great way of showing potential players an active mud .


Leak

[ This Message was edited by: ilisity on 01-08-2008 23:19 ]


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Angkor
pilgrim

Joined: Jan 30, 2004
Posts: 28
Posted: 01-08-2008 23:33   
Quote:

On 01-08-2008 16:31, royston wrote:
If half of what has been said about the atmosphere in MUD2 is correct (and it is a big ?if?)



The facts bear out that this "if" is not "big" - Viktor's comments on the Welcome screen of his MUD support what I've said. I've been very careful here only to present facts as I know them - ie events that I have witnessed, not hearsay.
Fbi appears to have had his account pulled (he appeared briefly last night as a Guest) and three or four names have disappeared from the Rogue's Gallery, which makes me suspect that at least one other player has also been nuked.
I can't prove that I've been bullied by Wizzes, I don't have access to the logs, so people can make up their own minds about that. I doubt that behaviour would go on in .co.uk, there would be too many people to witness it (Wiz and mort), but it does go on at .com...mind, in the last 24 hours I've been playing there unmolested by those unseen forces.
I wouldn't like to see the two MUDs merge, they are very different places, and because of where I am geographically (neither in Europe nor in North America) the Canadian one plays faster for me.


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royston
ranger

Joined: Jul 14, 2007
Posts: 1217
From: Felixstowe, Suffolk.
Posted: 02-08-2008 10:17   
[quote]

If half of what has been said about the atmosphere in MUD2 is correct (and it is a big ?if?)

If what I said gave the impression that I was traducing your good name, I apologise. No one who has read anything you have said can doubt your honesty or sincerity. But like it or like it not, to us it is hearsay and the perception, no matter how genuinely or sincerely felt, of just one person. Our immediate reaction, including my own, was one of outrage, understandably so. But I would now like to urge a little caution.

So far we have two issues. Firstly that there was someone in the Tearoom at MUD2 urging players to leave MUD2 and join MUDii, with perhaps the underlying suggestion that it may be one of us poaching. I would share Foddy?s cynicism if I could see a motive. Secondly that all is not well within MUD2 itself. That there is an element of bullying especially from Wizzes. The two issues may or may not be connected. If they are then it is most likely that it is a second dissatisfied player from MUD2 in their Tearoom.

Either way I would like to see some sort of corroboration, perhaps an explanation (if it is any of our business) from Viktor himself. There is a lot of feeling and emotion here about this; it must be a lot worse at MUD2.

In the meantime I might go over and have a look for myself. Anyone coming?




[ This Message was edited by: royston on 02-08-2008 17:09 ]


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Angkor
pilgrim

Joined: Jan 30, 2004
Posts: 28
Posted: 02-08-2008 11:19   
[quote]
On 02-08-2008 10:17, royston wrote:
Quote:


But like it or like it not, to us it is hearsay and the perception, no matter how genuinely or sincerely felt, of just one person. [ This Message was edited by: royston on 02-08-2008 10:19 ]



Two people, in fact; in regard to the matter of Fbi, Viktor has said it loud and clear on the welcome message on his MUD - fair enough, not on this forum, but it's there for anyone to see should they care to look.


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