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MUDII Forum Index General Chat So, where the hell are y'all?
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Author So, where the hell are y'all?
Droo
Wizard



Joined: Jan 06, 2002
Posts: 43
From: Ireland, of course!
Posted: 08-01-2002 02:15   

Whats the crack, wheres everyone gone?
----*DROO


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Gothik
cabalist

Joined: Aug 21, 2001
Posts: 61
From: London
Posted: 08-01-2002 12:46   
Gothik the novice, runs up to Droo the wizard, tugs his flowing grey beard, quickly scampers back to the pub to complete his cunning plans to wiz in one set, and populate the land with more fine ale houses.
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Droo
Wizard



Joined: Jan 06, 2002
Posts: 43
From: Ireland, of course!
Posted: 08-01-2002 13:07   
Here's an idea: why dont we organise a reunion night, everyone who knows anyone who 'used to plays' email adress MUDMAIL them too me.

Thanks,

DROO.

Besides, why did they all leave after wireplay closed anyway??


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Shantigh
friar

Joined: Aug 27, 2001
Posts: 84
From: Firkins
Posted: 08-01-2002 21:17   
Because a majority of the players were either poor students or unwilling to play ?12 a month for a text game, when Everquest comes in at about ?7 a month and other text games are free.

Basically.
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Droo
Wizard



Joined: Jan 06, 2002
Posts: 43
From: Ireland, of course!
Posted: 09-01-2002 01:19   

Hmm, is everquest that much better than MUD2? I had a crack a while back and thought not. Its all a little too 'amiga' for me.

Diablo2, now theres a game...

Besides, graphical user interfaces only become obsolite; text on the otherhand, is immortal.

Droo.

Agree or Disagree? then reply...


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Eric
cleric

Joined: Aug 19, 2001
Posts: 134
From: Liverpool
Posted: 09-01-2002 02:02   
The pricing was too high for your average bob mortal, I felt.

I understand it would be unfair to charge less than the other mud2 servers, but .co.uk could have been overflowing with morts if the price had matched/beaten eq.

Less income, but a LOT more people paying would possibly make up for that and recover any potential losses.

The only reason I don't play now is the cost - I still think the game is great, even with the code changes that have happened, and I know a few other people who would pay too.

I doubt price decreases will happen though *sighs*.


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Azrael
Wizard



Joined: Aug 19, 2001
Posts: 40
Posted: 09-01-2002 02:17   
Although a decrease in payment could possibly bring in enough customers to justify it, this is a quote from Richard's site in the license agreement:

Quote:
5. In order not to hurt existing licensees, MUSE will not grant a licence if significant numbers of players are likely to abandon other MUD2s in favour of the proposed new one.



In my opinion, if the game's any good at ?6 a month, then it's still good at ?12 a month. And if you think it's not worth paying to play a game which reasonably few people play, then think how many others are thinking that exact same thing, and how close to WPMUD2 it would seem if you all played.

[ This Message was edited by: Azrael on 09-01-2002 02:46 ]


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Eric
cleric

Joined: Aug 19, 2001
Posts: 134
From: Liverpool
Posted: 09-01-2002 02:22   
There's a huge jump between ?6 and ?12.

I'm a student, and for me it's just not feasible to pay that amount for a text game, no matter how good it is.

Especially when other MUD's are free (although nowhere near as good, the word free goes a LONG way ), and I can play a MMORPG for about ?7, and see where everyone who became disillusioned by the game went to.



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Droo
Wizard



Joined: Jan 06, 2002
Posts: 43
From: Ireland, of course!
Posted: 09-01-2002 13:56   

Hmmm,

The irony is, although everquest is a 'massive graphical quest style melee of blah blah' MUD2 has always been here and will (in one form or another) always be here.

A drop in price may or may not be the answer...

Getting our name out to the masses might be a good idea. Wireplay style. Does anyone have suggestions on how to do that?

Droo



[ This Message was edited by: Droo on 09-01-2002 14:01 ]


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Droo
Wizard



Joined: Jan 06, 2002
Posts: 43
From: Ireland, of course!
Posted: 09-01-2002 14:05   

Oh, whats MMORPG?
Oh; Oh, whose going to the mudmeet in April?
maybe should make a new thread for that question...

Droo.


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Shantigh
friar

Joined: Aug 27, 2001
Posts: 84
From: Firkins
Posted: 09-01-2002 18:16   
I disagree with the thing on pricing for games, if its good game, enough playing for any price - uh-uh. Not when that money could go towards better things, like Diesel... alcohol.. that type of thing.

Even at ?6 you're still talking alot, but then it worked out at ?2 per persona, which that way was alright and I'd have probably paid about that. But at ?12 a month, that's ?4 per persona, plus there aren't that many people playing, so that's a downside - basically a game going stagnant (sp). So at ?12, no it goes above what people are willing to play.

Now I'll agree that EQ isn't as good a game, actually that's probably not the right wording, it's a different game, and there are different reasons for liking both games, but it's also much better on the eye candy scale, comes with software (something MUD2 lacked, at least at the start) - a large player base and a huge world to explore. And the main reason why it ranks as "better" - it's cheaper! It appeals to the pocket more.

Anyways, I've went into ramble mood, but before I go, I don't even think mass marketing would work with MUD, it would be like flogging a dead horse. It really needs a price drop, that's how you get your customers, a 20 year odd old game at that price just isn't worth it, no matter how good the game is.

And also the quote from Richard's site, I don't think you could say MUD has that much competition, because I think .com is in a more dire state of affairs than ii.co.uk, and when the only competition is one as struggling as your own site, then it is not competition, it's just a joint death due to prices that are in the land of faeries!

/rant off. I'm going back to my vodka.
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Heiach
Wizard



Joined: Oct 31, 2001
Posts: 515
From: I can't remember!
Posted: 09-01-2002 22:02   
to get more players.. you'd need to advertise it.. there are quite a few mud lists out there..its just the case of finding them... the obvious.. and the one that got me the most players for a mud I advertised for a bit was mudconnect.com I haven't checked (Although I will straight after this) but mud2 might already be on there. There are links of mudconnect to other lists that you could add mud2 too.. if its applicable... but the price will put new players off.

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Karya
Witch



Joined: Aug 19, 2001
Posts: 199
Posted: 09-01-2002 22:50   
I've put MUDII on all the mud lists that I can find (and will put it on any others that people tell me about) and it is also on the Mudconnector. But I think we've been through all this before on another thread ... <G>.

As for advertising, it's being advertised more than you realise. Our latest thing is a glossy ad in the Mud Companion (a glossy magazine about muds).


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Droo
Wizard



Joined: Jan 06, 2002
Posts: 43
From: Ireland, of course!
Posted: 10-01-2002 00:21   

hmmm...

So. if we had nice client software, do you believe that would make more people who dont know about muds or mud2 in general interested in the game?

As for flogging a dead horse? Well... Im not so sure its that bad just yet. If you like mud2 what do you think should be changed?

Droo.


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Eric
cleric

Joined: Aug 19, 2001
Posts: 134
From: Liverpool
Posted: 10-01-2002 00:59   
Apart from a price drop (which would get everybody talking about the game again, which is a great form of advertising), it would be nice to see a big advert in pc gamer or something, although that seems unlikely.

Advertising in a mud magazine is alright, but it's not going out to new people, only the same old people who play muds all the time. You should look for fresh blood. Wireplay is relaunching, and maybe you should try stick an oar in there somewhere?

Client software is good, but the wp3 one was ludicrous - it alienated half the people who played the game by requiring a 3d graphics card! Mud4Mortals seemed like the direction to take in regards client software - I still think that was fantastic.

As for mud2 always being here, I can't see eq going away so easily - it's the most popular online game that there has ever been.

MMORPG stands for Massively Multiplayer Online RolePlaying Game, I think.

I don't think mud2 is a dead horse, but I do think it's a dying one that stands a good chance of living with attention from a skilled vet


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Shantigh
friar

Joined: Aug 27, 2001
Posts: 84
From: Firkins
Posted: 10-01-2002 01:21   
Advertising - at that price - still doesn't work. People aren't stupid, and most aren't silly enough to pay that much for a text adventure. Now granted, the players you have are willing to pay because they know and love the game - that is different. But to attract the complete and utter newbie, you need an incentive, all that price does is scare them away.

So no matter how much advertising you do, that price is still a major turn off, yes, you might get a few, but WP was averaging quite a lot of newbies - ok, different situation, it was free, but still, the reason MUD is failing and the reason it is on it's death bed (which no matter how much you want to dress it up - it is) is because of the price.

It is a good game, it can do well. This has been well proven in the past, but the fact is, it is not worth that amount of money per month. It's a game, and in the real world, money goes on things that are more needed than a text adventure and since seemingly a vast majority of the players were students or at least in that age range, you have completely alienated them with this price because it is not something they can easily afford or what to afford.

Anyways, to close, because I'm half cut and tired. The reason why advertising etc will not work, and will be a blatant waste of both time and effort is because the game is too highly priced. When it comes in at over an apparently better game, people aren't going to give it a chance, and bluntly, it needs that chance. It needs a price drop, it needs people to stop messing about and to actually work to get it popular, which just isn't happening. And yes I'm as blunt as can be, but that's what happens when you get drunk.

This game, even in a pay format, could do as well as before. But because of the price, it won't. And it never will.
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Shantigh
friar

Joined: Aug 27, 2001
Posts: 84
From: Firkins
Posted: 10-01-2002 01:25   
To add on, about the software which I brought up earlier.

When I started playing MUD2, it had reasonable software available for it. It had its nice pretty WP software that all the newbies used and loved, then it had its hardcore DOS version stuff.

Now, it hasn't got much. Now I know, without double checking, which I wont', cos I'm tired. It may have gained some software support, maybe similar to 2.com's with the java client. But it doesn't have any real software support - given that you do actually buy the software for EQ before you play, it still comes in as better because it is a known outlay on the sub fee, not an unknown one like MUD2 where to play you need to either buy one (ie. ZMUD) or mess about finding a free one- it just doesn't have the support it used to. Yet, another disadvantage.


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Karya
Witch



Joined: Aug 19, 2001
Posts: 199
Posted: 10-01-2002 08:29   
Quote:

On 10-01-2002 01:21, Shantigh wrote:
it needs people to stop messing about and to actually work to get it popular, which just isn't happening


Actually fyi we're doing a bloody lot of work, all of us, for the sake of MUDII!


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Gothik
cabalist

Joined: Aug 21, 2001
Posts: 61
From: London
Posted: 10-01-2002 14:18   
Personally I dont doubt that an awful lot of hard work is done behind the scenes, by a dedicated few, with little thanks, but the question I would ask is this hard work making an impact in attracting and keeping new players?

I must admit that the WP front end , scroll type text was in my opinion more exciting to look at for a newbie, (if perhaps a little less functional than ones like clio), I tried to load it a couple of times after mudii.co.uk went online without success. Would a newbie friendly client as a default be difficult to set up, with options to change later?

Think advertising to the virtually converted via general mud magazines is a good use of money, but would be great to see a campaign of advertising in a wider circulation magazine. If only the money was available.

On the other hand from a selfish perspective would hate to go back to sharing kit with 50 other players as in peak of wireplay days.Tricky balance indeed..


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Karya
Witch



Joined: Aug 19, 2001
Posts: 199
Posted: 10-01-2002 18:29   
Quote:

On 10-01-2002 14:18, Gothik wrote:
I must admit that the WP front end , scroll type text was in my opinion more exciting to look at for a newbie. Would a newbie friendly client as a default be difficult to set up, with options to change later?



A Wireplay type client is in development for exactly the reason you stated. To set it up as a default is tricky and will probably annoy the existing players who like their choice of client, but there is something in the pipeline aimed at newbies.

Quote:

Think advertising to the virtually converted via general mud magazines is a good use of money, but would be great to see a campaign of advertising in a wider circulation magazine. If only the money was available.



We've started with advertising aimed at people with an interest in muds but we do aim to broaden the advertising. Yes, money will make it tricky but there are a few ideas that haven't been dismissed (yet) due to the cost.

Thankyou Gothik for giving some useful and constructive ideas.


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